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    Posted: 11/January/2018 at 16:32
Surprised to see we didn’t have a dedicated ECW thread in this section.

I was a big fan of Paul Heymans ECW, I think in part because at the age I was at(late teens-early 20’s) it all seemed very cool having a wrestling product with that level of sex, violence, swearing and general adult themes. Unfortunately at the time due to its limited exposure over here I was only able to watch very little of the product and was mostly restricted to reading about it. However with the boom of online technology and now in the present day the WWE Network I’m able to watch as much of it as I want. I’m mainly ploughing through the PPV events as their hourly weekly tv show Hardcore TV by all accounts wasn’t much to shout about.

I was always a Sabu fan but watching his matches back now that guy was a terrible wrestler, very much a spot monkey who got by on his crazy stunts. In terms of actual wrestling ability he was very poor and the guy never spoke so he had no promo skills to speak of. Much of his ring work was botch filled and untidy looking too. Still despite all these gaping flaws he produced many memorable moments and matches.

Mike Awesome like his name is awesome. How this guy never made it in WWE is beyond me. A guy his size with charisma and in ring talent, such a waste.

Taz is one of my all time favourites. Loved his shoot fighter bad ass tough guy character and his MMA/suplex style.

Most people know RVD has always been one of my all time favourites, but watching back a lot of his ECW matches much like Sabu were pretty prone to botches and often a bit scruffy looking. He must have dished out so many injuries to opponents. Seems when he came to WWE he polished up his ring work a bit, at least in his early years.

Also great seeing old school guys like Rick Rude, Shane Douglas, Terry Funk, Bam Bam Bigelow, Chris Candido and other’s.

What makes the product stand out is how rough around the edges it was, unlike today’s WWE you could tell these guys weren’t working from any scripts, everything was done on the fly and they fed off the reaction of the crowd, and it worked so well. Puts today’s guys to shame who stand out there trying to memorise their lines having no idea how to really engage with the fan reaction.

Edited by Fletch - 11/January/2018 at 16:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kondor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 17:17
YES!! it's about time we got some good old school ECW talk on here. Thumbs Up


Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

Surprised to see we didn’t have a dedicated ECW thread in this section.

I was a big fan of Paul Heymans ECW, I think in part because at the age I was at(late teens-early 20’s) it all seemed very cool having a wrestling product with that level of sex, violence, swearing and general adult themes. Unfortunately at the time due to its limited exposure over here I was only able to watch very little of the product and was mostly restricted to reading about it. However with the boom of online technology and now in the present day the WWE Network I’m able to watch as much of it as I want. I’m mainly ploughing through the PPV events as their hourly weekly tv show Hardcore TV by all accounts wasn’t much to shout about.

I mostly found out about and followed ECW via the magazines at the time as well. I remember reading about this new fed when it first started in 1992 in an issue of Wrestling's Main Event Magazine and how they crowned Superfly Jimmy Snuka as their first Champion. Then I began to read about how the fed was gaining a reputation for some violent matches with people like the Funks and Public Enemy. In 1994 I read about Shane Douglas throwing down the NWA belt. Over the next couple of years, while I had not yet seen the actual show, I was able to pick up a sense of the cult following it has via the magazines, where I followed people like Taz and Tommy Dreamer. 

My first real taste of seeing this ECW sensation was when they invaded Raw in 1997. Jerry Lawler just grabbed a fan's ECW sign right out of the stands and went on a tirade about how he was sick of hearing about ECW, and invited the ECW stars to Raw (now I wonder if even that fan was a plant.) Seeing people like the Eliminators and Sandman do their thing on Raw was one of the most wild things I'd seen. ECW had their weekly show (Hardcore TV) on the MSG Network and it was the most awesome thing ever due to everything to describe, the graphic content, the edginess, the wrestler interviews with cool music in the background, and of course the hardcore matches.

I was able to see one live ECW show in person in the spring of 2000. I saw Balls Mahoney get slammed through a table. Tommy Dreamer and Johnny Swinger fought in the crowd two feet away from me. I also got to meet Bill Alfonzo in person who was super nice and signed autographs for everyone. I also got to shake hands with New Jack after the show. 

I have also gone back and seen a lot of the older ECW footage going way back to 1992, either from You Tube or getting the video or DVD. About a year ago I was actually hooked on ECW. 

I really wish the original ECW would have lasted. There is no telling how they would have changed had they lasted and which wrestlers would have come through their doors.   

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

I was always a Sabu fan but watching his matches back now that guy was a terrible wrestler, very much a spot monkey who got by on his crazy stunts. In terms of actual wrestling ability he was very poor and the guy never spoke so he had no promo skills to speak of. Much of his ring work was botch filled and untidy looking too. Still despite all these gaping flaws he produced many memorable moments and matches.

I know you have stated this several times, including in the shoutbox, but I am going to have to completely disagree with you on Sabu. I see him as being so innovative, the guy was bringing chairs into the ring to leap off of them as far back as 1992; he wrestled an unheard of style of the time. I think Sabu can ground wrestle when he wants to; he just focused on that stunt based style to speak of. What style or way of wrestling each of us likes or doesn't like is of course down to personal preference. Either you like it or you don't like it so to each his own.    

Of course we could talk about ECW and its stars forever; but some of the guys I enjoyed watching the most was Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, the Funks, Raven, Cactus Jack, Shane Douglas, Rob Van Dam, Sabu, Taz, Steve Corino, the Eliminators, Chris Chetti, Bam Bam Bigelow, Jerry Lynn, Chilly Willy, Masato Tanaka, 2 Cold Scorpio, The Shooter Dean Malenko, The Dudley Boys, J.T. Smith, Yoshihiro Tajiri, & Super Crazy. There were also brief stops for Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, & Sid. It is also interesting to see the pro wrestling veterans in ECW's early years like Magnificent Muraco, Road Warrior Hawk (who briefly wrestled as a singles star), and of course Snuka. 

Francine was an awesome valet/manager, as was Sensational Sherri before her. I heard that when Sherri was on her way out to head to WCW in 1994 she gave pointers to Francine on how to play the role and things to do. I would have to say she excelled at following that instruction.

The best feud for me in ECW history is Raven vs Sandman. They were feuding over the ECW Title for most of 1996 & 1997, but the thing that made it absolutely brilliant was Raven employing Sandman's real ex wife Peaches (also Sandman's former valet) and real son Tyler into his stable. That brought the psychology and mind games up to a level I had never seen.   

Like I said we could be here all day. We could make a whole other thread on the evolution of ECW characters. But yeah, I am definitely a fan of the original ECW. 

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

What makes the product stand out is how rough around the edges it was, unlike today’s WWE you could tell these guys weren’t working from any scripts, everything was done on the fly and they fed off the reaction of the crowd, and it worked so well. Puts today’s guys to shame who stand out there trying to memorise their lines having no idea how to really engage with the fan reaction.

This is a very important point. Most all of the ECW interviews and promos were real. People just said and did whatever came to them. Some of it was massively pushing it, like that promos the Dudley Boyz did at Heatwave 1999 or Raven crucifying Sandman (which got complaints from even ECW fans. There was nothing ever like that time. 


Edited by Kondor - 11/January/2018 at 18:18

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 19:00
Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

YES!! it's about time we got some good old school ECW talk on here. 


Indeed. Hopefully a few more regulars were fans also.

Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

I mostly found out about and followed ECW via the magazines at the time as well. I remember reading about this new fed when it first started in 1992 in an issue of Wrestling's Main Event Magazine and how they crowned Superfly Jimmy Snuka as their first Champion. Then I began to read about how the fed was gaining a reputation for some violent matches with people like the Funks and Public Enemy. In 1994 I read about Shane Douglas throwing down the NWA belt. Over the next couple of years, while I had not yet seen the actual show, I was able to pick up a sense of the cult following it has via the magazines, where I followed people like Taz and Tommy Dreamer. 

My first real taste of seeing this ECW sensation was when they invaded Raw in 1997. Jerry Lawler just grabbed a fan's ECW sign right out of the stands and went on a tirade about how he was sick of hearing about ECW, and invited the ECW stars to Raw (now I wonder if even that fan was a plant.) Seeing people like the Eliminators and Sandman do their thing on Raw was one of the most wild things I'd seen. ECW had their weekly show (Hardcore TV) on the MSG Network and it was the most awesome thing ever due to everything to describe, the graphic content, the edginess, the wrestler interviews with cool music in the background, and of course the hardcore matches.

I was able to see one live ECW show in person in the spring of 2000. I saw Balls Mahoney get slammed through a table. Tommy Dreamer and Johnny Swinger fought in the crowd two feet away from me. I also got to meet Bill Alfonzo in person who was super nice and signed autographs for everyone. I also got to shake hands with New Jack after the show. 

I have also gone back and seen a lot of the older ECW footage going way back to 1992, either from You Tube or getting the video or DVD. About a year ago I was actually hooked on ECW. 

I really wish the original ECW would have lasted. There is no telling how they would have changed had they lasted and which wrestlers would have come through their doors.


The product was so cool and innovative at the time wasn't it. There was a lot of bad about it but it was easy to overlook the rubbish because the stuff that was worth watching was so good and unlike any other wrestling product.

I really wish WWE could have kept them afloat. ECW died due to a lack of funding and advertisers and networks being reluctant to touch them due to the violent and adult theme of the product. ECW Hardcore TV only aired over here in a stupidly late timeslot from what I remember which is why I never really got to see it.
But if WWE could have agreed to provide funding and used ECW as a extension of their business and continued the talent trading that they had going on briefly then I think it could have survived. And no the watered down piece of crap that was WWE's third brand version of ECW doesn't count. The first and second One Night Stand events are evidence of what could have been achieved with a decent business relationship between WWE and ECW, to this day I'm still a bit baffled as to why WWE's brand version went so horribly wrong other than perhaps they left it too long meaning the popularity of ECW had waned and also much of the former roster were now too old and broken down to perform at their past standard. Plus many had a abundance of drug and pain killer issues and WWE wouldn't touch them or they wouldn't have lasted long in the company.

Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:


I know you have stated this several times, including in the shoutbox, but I am going to have to completely disagree with you on Sabu. I see him as being so innovative, the guy was bringing chairs into the ring to leap off of them as far back as 1992; he wrestled an unheard of style of the time. I think Sabu can ground wrestle when he wants to; he just focused on that stunt based style to speak of. What style or way of wrestling each of us likes or doesn't like is of course down to personal preference. Either you like it or you don't like it so to each his own.    

Of course we could talk about ECW and its stars forever; but some of the guys I enjoyed watching the most was Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, the Funks, Raven, Cactus Jack, Shane Douglas, Rob Van Dam, Sabu, Taz, Steve Corino, the Eliminators, Chris Chetti, Bam Bam Bigelow, Jerry Lynn, Chilly Willy, Masato Tanaka, 2 Cold Scorpio, The Shooter Dean Malenko, The Dudley Boys, J.T. Smith, Yoshihiro Tajiri, & Super Crazy. There were also brief stops for Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, & Sid. It is also interesting to see the pro wrestling veterans in ECW's early years like Magnificent Muraco, Road Warrior Hawk (who briefly wrestled as a singles star), and of course Snuka. 

Francine was an awesome valet/manager, as was Sensational Sherri before her. I heard that when Sherri was on her way out to head to WCW in 1994 she gave pointers to Francine on how to play the role and things to do. I would have to say she excelled at following that instruction.

The best feud for me in ECW history is Raven vs Sandman. They were feuding over the ECW Title for most of 1996 & 1997, but the thing that made it absolutely brilliant was Raven employing Sandman's real ex wife Peaches (also Sandman's former valet) and real son Tyler into his stable. That brought the psychology and mind games up to a level I had never seen.   

Like I said we could be here all day. We could make a whole other thread on the evolution of ECW characters. But yeah, I am definitely a fan of the original ECW. 


Dont get me wrong I'm a Sabu fan he was a innovator at the time and many have tried to follow suit. I just think he could appear as something of a one trick pony, I think it's perhaps because now I've seen hundreds of matches with wrestlers crashing through tables his offence and style doesn't appear so unique anymore, but it's true to say nobody has popularised the hardcore ring style in the way he did aside from maybe Cactus Jack and New Jack but neither of those two had Sabu's athletic ability.




Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

This is a very important point. Most all of the ECW interviews and promos were real. People just said and did whatever came to them. Some of it was massively pushing it, like that promos the Dudley Boyz did at Heatwave 1999 or Raven crucifying Sandman (which got complaints from even ECW fans. There was nothing ever like that time. 


I think this what inspired me to start this thread. Lately when watching WWE it's been really evident that so many if not most of the talent are following scripts and even the ring style looks rehearsed at times. Watching ECW on the Network has really shown what a lost art improvising promos and matches has become in the business which is a tragedy because this was the most effective way to really engage the crowd and feed off their reaction.



Edited by Fletch - 11/January/2018 at 19:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 19:32
Oh man I loved The Dudley clan in ECW. Of course we all know Bubba Ray, Dvon and the runt Spike but we also had Big Dick and Sign Guy haha.

Though my favourite bit of ECW was always Joel Gertner. I often wonder if the quintessential stud muffin wrote his own segments or if someone did it for him.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:01
Originally posted by Baz Baz wrote:

Oh man I loved The Dudley clan in ECW. Of course we all know Bubba Ray, Dvon and the runt Spike but we also had Big Dick and Sign Guy haha.

Though my favourite bit of ECW was always Joel Gertner. I often wonder if the quintessential stud muffin wrote his own segments or if someone did it for him.


I think like most in ECW Gertner would improvise, he was one of my favourite characters as well. The Dudley Clan were great too, I can’t remember what PPV it was but I always remember the segment where there was a promo/brawl between the Dudleys and Psycho Sid with Bubba even calling Sid a big blonde f**got
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:05
Good old Bubba haha. Plus we had little Spike being thrown from the ring into the crowd by Bam Bam.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MUSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:17
I was lucky enough to see ECW live in New York just before they closed down.  The 1999/2000 ECW was definitely not like OLD SCHOOL ECW, but it was still fun as hell to be apart of and still had some great talents around like Lynn, Rhino, Credible, and others.

@Fletch - Mike Awesome was actually in WWE for a REALLY short time after WCW got bought-out...and they let him go.  I thought that this was the dumbest release they made.  Mike Awesome was one of my favorite World Champions in ECW.  He was the most insanely strong wrestler I'd ever seen to this day (Cesaro and Goldberg are close 2nds).   Then he came back for ECW ONS and they threw a contract at him, and he turned it down for some reason (not sure why, sadly, he's no longer around to ask).  Though his match with Tanaka was my absolute favorite of the night.

My favorite ECW moments had to have been when Funk won the ECW World Title at the first ECW PPV (it freakin' came out of nowhere given Raven's lengthy reign) and Jerry Lynn FINALLY getting the ECW World Title.

The only guy I actually *hated* in ECW that everyone loved was New Jack.  I never liked that guy.  Always thought he was an arrogant prick and took advantage of wrestlers.  When Vic Grimes cracked him open - I thought "just desserts" for all of the times he hurt others.

By far ECW had my favorite tag teams on an "indy" scene, Paul had a certain magic with pairing guys up.  Da Baldies, Public Enemy, The Gangsta, the Pitbulls, F.B.I., Simon & Swinger, the Dudley Boyz, EZ Money & Julio Dinero, The Eliminators (my fav ECW team), Roadkill & During -- all of these teams just meshed so well together.  Even the ones who weren't that famous still had awesome matches and gelled really well as a team.  i can't really think of a flop of a team in ECW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:25
The FBI were superb, they had some members over the years didn't they?  Big Guido, Little Guido, Marmaluke, Smothers, Sal E and countless others who I can't remember haha.

Oh I can also remember the whole Scotty Anton and The Clap thingy LOL


Edited by Baz - 11/January/2018 at 20:27

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MUSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 21:10
ECW had this amazing ability of getting everyone over. It didn't matter if they opened the card, in the midcard, or main evented. Everyone was over. That's what made it so fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/January/2018 at 22:30
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

I was lucky enough to see ECW live in New York just before they closed down.  The 1999/2000 ECW was definitely not like OLD SCHOOL ECW, but it was still fun as hell to be apart of and still had some great talents around like Lynn, Rhino, Credible, and others.

@Fletch - Mike Awesome was actually in WWE for a REALLY short time after WCW got bought-out...and they let him go.  I thought that this was the dumbest release they made.  Mike Awesome was one of my favorite World Champions in ECW.  He was the most insanely strong wrestler I'd ever seen to this day (Cesaro and Goldberg are close 2nds).   Then he came back for ECW ONS and they threw a contract at him, and he turned it down for some reason (not sure why, sadly, he's no longer around to ask).  Though his match with Tanaka was my absolute favorite of the night.

My favorite ECW moments had to have been when Funk won the ECW World Title at the first ECW PPV (it freakin' came out of nowhere given Raven's lengthy reign) and Jerry Lynn FINALLY getting the ECW World Title.

The only guy I actually *hated* in ECW that everyone loved was New Jack.  I never liked that guy.  Always thought he was an arrogant prick and took advantage of wrestlers.  When Vic Grimes cracked him open - I thought "just desserts" for all of the times he hurt others.

By far ECW had my favorite tag teams on an "indy" scene, Paul had a certain magic with pairing guys up.  Da Baldies, Public Enemy, The Gangsta, the Pitbulls, F.B.I., Simon & Swinger, the Dudley Boyz, EZ Money & Julio Dinero, The Eliminators (my fav ECW team), Roadkill & During -- all of these teams just meshed so well together.  Even the ones who weren't that famous still had awesome matches and gelled really well as a team.  i can't really think of a flop of a team in ECW.


Yeah I remember Mike Awesome's brief WWE stint as part of the 'Invasion' angle. He won the Hardcore title for a short time but was then completely jobbed out before being released, he played no real part in the WWE vs WECW storyline.
I remember his match with Tanaka from One Night Stand too and like you I agree it was match of the night and that's quite a achievement on what was a very strong card and one of my favourite PPV events to date.
I didn't see much of his WCW run but that was mostly mid-card stuff too wasn't it? Seems that perhaps there were some attitude issues with Awesome given that a man with his size look and talent failed to make it in either of the top US promotions. ECW was overrun with problematic characters it almost became the place to work if you were blacklisted with WWE or WCW. But he even left ECW on a sour note after leaving while still holding the World title.

I never saw Jerry Lynn's reign as World champ but I will be catching it on the Network at some point in the very near future. Lynn vs RVD was one of the first ECW matches I ever watched and I was hooked after seeing that and Van Dam instantly became one of my favourite wrestlers.

Edited by Fletch - 11/January/2018 at 22:32
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