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ECW(the real one)

Printed From: TUP Wrestling Forum
Category: Wrestling
Forum Name: Old School Wrestling
Forum Description: Anyone long for the days of Pat Patterson and Bob Backlund? Maybe you wish WCW was still here, or have a memory of there history, that sticks in your mind? Here is the place to talk more.
URL: http://www.tupwrestlingforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=22485
Printed Date: 22/August/2018 at 01:16
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Topic: ECW(the real one)
Posted By: Fletch
Subject: ECW(the real one)
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 16:32
Surprised to see we didn’t have a dedicated ECW thread in this section.

I was a big fan of Paul Heymans ECW, I think in part because at the age I was at(late teens-early 20’s) it all seemed very cool having a wrestling product with that level of sex, violence, swearing and general adult themes. Unfortunately at the time due to its limited exposure over here I was only able to watch very little of the product and was mostly restricted to reading about it. However with the boom of online technology and now in the present day the WWE Network I’m able to watch as much of it as I want. I’m mainly ploughing through the PPV events as their hourly weekly tv show Hardcore TV by all accounts wasn’t much to shout about.

I was always a Sabu fan but watching his matches back now that guy was a terrible wrestler, very much a spot monkey who got by on his crazy stunts. In terms of actual wrestling ability he was very poor and the guy never spoke so he had no promo skills to speak of. Much of his ring work was botch filled and untidy looking too. Still despite all these gaping flaws he produced many memorable moments and matches.

Mike Awesome like his name is awesome. How this guy never made it in WWE is beyond me. A guy his size with charisma and in ring talent, such a waste.

Taz is one of my all time favourites. Loved his shoot fighter bad ass tough guy character and his MMA/suplex style.

Most people know RVD has always been one of my all time favourites, but watching back a lot of his ECW matches much like Sabu were pretty prone to botches and often a bit scruffy looking. He must have dished out so many injuries to opponents. Seems when he came to WWE he polished up his ring work a bit, at least in his early years.

Also great seeing old school guys like Rick Rude, Shane Douglas, Terry Funk, Bam Bam Bigelow, Chris Candido and other’s.

What makes the product stand out is how rough around the edges it was, unlike today’s WWE you could tell these guys weren’t working from any scripts, everything was done on the fly and they fed off the reaction of the crowd, and it worked so well. Puts today’s guys to shame who stand out there trying to memorise their lines having no idea how to really engage with the fan reaction.

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Replies:
Posted By: Kondor
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 17:17
YES!! it's about time we got some good old school ECW talk on here. Thumbs Up


Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

Surprised to see we didn’t have a dedicated ECW thread in this section.

I was a big fan of Paul Heymans ECW, I think in part because at the age I was at(late teens-early 20’s) it all seemed very cool having a wrestling product with that level of sex, violence, swearing and general adult themes. Unfortunately at the time due to its limited exposure over here I was only able to watch very little of the product and was mostly restricted to reading about it. However with the boom of online technology and now in the present day the WWE Network I’m able to watch as much of it as I want. I’m mainly ploughing through the PPV events as their hourly weekly tv show Hardcore TV by all accounts wasn’t much to shout about.

I mostly found out about and followed ECW via the magazines at the time as well. I remember reading about this new fed when it first started in 1992 in an issue of Wrestling's Main Event Magazine and how they crowned Superfly Jimmy Snuka as their first Champion. Then I began to read about how the fed was gaining a reputation for some violent matches with people like the Funks and Public Enemy. In 1994 I read about Shane Douglas throwing down the NWA belt. Over the next couple of years, while I had not yet seen the actual show, I was able to pick up a sense of the cult following it has via the magazines, where I followed people like Taz and Tommy Dreamer. 

My first real taste of seeing this ECW sensation was when they invaded Raw in 1997. Jerry Lawler just grabbed a fan's ECW sign right out of the stands and went on a tirade about how he was sick of hearing about ECW, and invited the ECW stars to Raw (now I wonder if even that fan was a plant.) Seeing people like the Eliminators and Sandman do their thing on Raw was one of the most wild things I'd seen. ECW had their weekly show (Hardcore TV) on the MSG Network and it was the most awesome thing ever due to everything to describe, the graphic content, the edginess, the wrestler interviews with cool music in the background, and of course the hardcore matches.

I was able to see one live ECW show in person in the spring of 2000. I saw Balls Mahoney get slammed through a table. Tommy Dreamer and Johnny Swinger fought in the crowd two feet away from me. I also got to meet Bill Alfonzo in person who was super nice and signed autographs for everyone. I also got to shake hands with New Jack after the show. 

I have also gone back and seen a lot of the older ECW footage going way back to 1992, either from You Tube or getting the video or DVD. About a year ago I was actually hooked on ECW. 

I really wish the original ECW would have lasted. There is no telling how they would have changed had they lasted and which wrestlers would have come through their doors.   

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

I was always a Sabu fan but watching his matches back now that guy was a terrible wrestler, very much a spot monkey who got by on his crazy stunts. In terms of actual wrestling ability he was very poor and the guy never spoke so he had no promo skills to speak of. Much of his ring work was botch filled and untidy looking too. Still despite all these gaping flaws he produced many memorable moments and matches.

I know you have stated this several times, including in the shoutbox, but I am going to have to completely disagree with you on Sabu. I see him as being so innovative, the guy was bringing chairs into the ring to leap off of them as far back as 1992; he wrestled an unheard of style of the time. I think Sabu can ground wrestle when he wants to; he just focused on that stunt based style to speak of. What style or way of wrestling each of us likes or doesn't like is of course down to personal preference. Either you like it or you don't like it so to each his own.    

Of course we could talk about ECW and its stars forever; but some of the guys I enjoyed watching the most was Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, the Funks, Raven, Cactus Jack, Shane Douglas, Rob Van Dam, Sabu, Taz, Steve Corino, the Eliminators, Chris Chetti, Bam Bam Bigelow, Jerry Lynn, Chilly Willy, Masato Tanaka, 2 Cold Scorpio, The Shooter Dean Malenko, The Dudley Boys, J.T. Smith, Yoshihiro Tajiri, & Super Crazy. There were also brief stops for Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, & Sid. It is also interesting to see the pro wrestling veterans in ECW's early years like Magnificent Muraco, Road Warrior Hawk (who briefly wrestled as a singles star), and of course Snuka. 

Francine was an awesome valet/manager, as was Sensational Sherri before her. I heard that when Sherri was on her way out to head to WCW in 1994 she gave pointers to Francine on how to play the role and things to do. I would have to say she excelled at following that instruction.

The best feud for me in ECW history is Raven vs Sandman. They were feuding over the ECW Title for most of 1996 & 1997, but the thing that made it absolutely brilliant was Raven employing Sandman's real ex wife Peaches (also Sandman's former valet) and real son Tyler into his stable. That brought the psychology and mind games up to a level I had never seen.   

Like I said we could be here all day. We could make a whole other thread on the evolution of ECW characters. But yeah, I am definitely a fan of the original ECW. 

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

What makes the product stand out is how rough around the edges it was, unlike today’s WWE you could tell these guys weren’t working from any scripts, everything was done on the fly and they fed off the reaction of the crowd, and it worked so well. Puts today’s guys to shame who stand out there trying to memorise their lines having no idea how to really engage with the fan reaction.

This is a very important point. Most all of the ECW interviews and promos were real. People just said and did whatever came to them. Some of it was massively pushing it, like that promos the Dudley Boyz did at Heatwave 1999 or Raven crucifying Sandman (which got complaints from even ECW fans. There was nothing ever like that time. 


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Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 19:00
Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

YES!! it's about time we got some good old school ECW talk on here. 


Indeed. Hopefully a few more regulars were fans also.

Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

I mostly found out about and followed ECW via the magazines at the time as well. I remember reading about this new fed when it first started in 1992 in an issue of Wrestling's Main Event Magazine and how they crowned Superfly Jimmy Snuka as their first Champion. Then I began to read about how the fed was gaining a reputation for some violent matches with people like the Funks and Public Enemy. In 1994 I read about Shane Douglas throwing down the NWA belt. Over the next couple of years, while I had not yet seen the actual show, I was able to pick up a sense of the cult following it has via the magazines, where I followed people like Taz and Tommy Dreamer. 

My first real taste of seeing this ECW sensation was when they invaded Raw in 1997. Jerry Lawler just grabbed a fan's ECW sign right out of the stands and went on a tirade about how he was sick of hearing about ECW, and invited the ECW stars to Raw (now I wonder if even that fan was a plant.) Seeing people like the Eliminators and Sandman do their thing on Raw was one of the most wild things I'd seen. ECW had their weekly show (Hardcore TV) on the MSG Network and it was the most awesome thing ever due to everything to describe, the graphic content, the edginess, the wrestler interviews with cool music in the background, and of course the hardcore matches.

I was able to see one live ECW show in person in the spring of 2000. I saw Balls Mahoney get slammed through a table. Tommy Dreamer and Johnny Swinger fought in the crowd two feet away from me. I also got to meet Bill Alfonzo in person who was super nice and signed autographs for everyone. I also got to shake hands with New Jack after the show. 

I have also gone back and seen a lot of the older ECW footage going way back to 1992, either from You Tube or getting the video or DVD. About a year ago I was actually hooked on ECW. 

I really wish the original ECW would have lasted. There is no telling how they would have changed had they lasted and which wrestlers would have come through their doors.


The product was so cool and innovative at the time wasn't it. There was a lot of bad about it but it was easy to overlook the rubbish because the stuff that was worth watching was so good and unlike any other wrestling product.

I really wish WWE could have kept them afloat. ECW died due to a lack of funding and advertisers and networks being reluctant to touch them due to the violent and adult theme of the product. ECW Hardcore TV only aired over here in a stupidly late timeslot from what I remember which is why I never really got to see it.
But if WWE could have agreed to provide funding and used ECW as a extension of their business and continued the talent trading that they had going on briefly then I think it could have survived. And no the watered down piece of crap that was WWE's third brand version of ECW doesn't count. The first and second One Night Stand events are evidence of what could have been achieved with a decent business relationship between WWE and ECW, to this day I'm still a bit baffled as to why WWE's brand version went so horribly wrong other than perhaps they left it too long meaning the popularity of ECW had waned and also much of the former roster were now too old and broken down to perform at their past standard. Plus many had a abundance of drug and pain killer issues and WWE wouldn't touch them or they wouldn't have lasted long in the company.

Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:


I know you have stated this several times, including in the shoutbox, but I am going to have to completely disagree with you on Sabu. I see him as being so innovative, the guy was bringing chairs into the ring to leap off of them as far back as 1992; he wrestled an unheard of style of the time. I think Sabu can ground wrestle when he wants to; he just focused on that stunt based style to speak of. What style or way of wrestling each of us likes or doesn't like is of course down to personal preference. Either you like it or you don't like it so to each his own.    

Of course we could talk about ECW and its stars forever; but some of the guys I enjoyed watching the most was Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, the Funks, Raven, Cactus Jack, Shane Douglas, Rob Van Dam, Sabu, Taz, Steve Corino, the Eliminators, Chris Chetti, Bam Bam Bigelow, Jerry Lynn, Chilly Willy, Masato Tanaka, 2 Cold Scorpio, The Shooter Dean Malenko, The Dudley Boys, J.T. Smith, Yoshihiro Tajiri, & Super Crazy. There were also brief stops for Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, & Sid. It is also interesting to see the pro wrestling veterans in ECW's early years like Magnificent Muraco, Road Warrior Hawk (who briefly wrestled as a singles star), and of course Snuka. 

Francine was an awesome valet/manager, as was Sensational Sherri before her. I heard that when Sherri was on her way out to head to WCW in 1994 she gave pointers to Francine on how to play the role and things to do. I would have to say she excelled at following that instruction.

The best feud for me in ECW history is Raven vs Sandman. They were feuding over the ECW Title for most of 1996 & 1997, but the thing that made it absolutely brilliant was Raven employing Sandman's real ex wife Peaches (also Sandman's former valet) and real son Tyler into his stable. That brought the psychology and mind games up to a level I had never seen.   

Like I said we could be here all day. We could make a whole other thread on the evolution of ECW characters. But yeah, I am definitely a fan of the original ECW. 


Dont get me wrong I'm a Sabu fan he was a innovator at the time and many have tried to follow suit. I just think he could appear as something of a one trick pony, I think it's perhaps because now I've seen hundreds of matches with wrestlers crashing through tables his offence and style doesn't appear so unique anymore, but it's true to say nobody has popularised the hardcore ring style in the way he did aside from maybe Cactus Jack and New Jack but neither of those two had Sabu's athletic ability.




Originally posted by Kondor Kondor wrote:

This is a very important point. Most all of the ECW interviews and promos were real. People just said and did whatever came to them. Some of it was massively pushing it, like that promos the Dudley Boyz did at Heatwave 1999 or Raven crucifying Sandman (which got complaints from even ECW fans. There was nothing ever like that time. 


I think this what inspired me to start this thread. Lately when watching WWE it's been really evident that so many if not most of the talent are following scripts and even the ring style looks rehearsed at times. Watching ECW on the Network has really shown what a lost art improvising promos and matches has become in the business which is a tragedy because this was the most effective way to really engage the crowd and feed off their reaction.



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Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 19:32
Oh man I loved The Dudley clan in ECW. Of course we all know Bubba Ray, Dvon and the runt Spike but we also had Big Dick and Sign Guy haha.

Though my favourite bit of ECW was always Joel Gertner. I often wonder if the quintessential stud muffin wrote his own segments or if someone did it for him.


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Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:01
Originally posted by Baz Baz wrote:

Oh man I loved The Dudley clan in ECW. Of course we all know Bubba Ray, Dvon and the runt Spike but we also had Big Dick and Sign Guy haha.

Though my favourite bit of ECW was always Joel Gertner. I often wonder if the quintessential stud muffin wrote his own segments or if someone did it for him.


I think like most in ECW Gertner would improvise, he was one of my favourite characters as well. The Dudley Clan were great too, I can’t remember what PPV it was but I always remember the segment where there was a promo/brawl between the Dudleys and Psycho Sid with Bubba even calling Sid a big blonde f**got

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Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:05
Good old Bubba haha. Plus we had little Spike being thrown from the ring into the crowd by Bam Bam.

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Posted By: MUSA
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:17
 

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• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner


Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 20:25
The FBI were superb, they had some members over the years didn't they?  Big Guido, Little Guido, Marmaluke, Smothers, Sal E and countless others who I can't remember haha.

Oh I can also remember the whole Scotty Anton and The Clap thingy LOL


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Posted By: MUSA
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 21:10
 

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• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner


Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 22:30
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

I was lucky enough to see ECW live in New York just before they closed down.  The 1999/2000 ECW was definitely not like OLD SCHOOL ECW, but it was still fun as hell to be apart of and still had some great talents around like Lynn, Rhino, Credible, and others.

@Fletch - Mike Awesome was actually in WWE for a REALLY short time after WCW got bought-out...and they let him go.  I thought that this was the dumbest release they made.  Mike Awesome was one of my favorite World Champions in ECW.  He was the most insanely strong wrestler I'd ever seen to this day (Cesaro and Goldberg are close 2nds).   Then he came back for ECW ONS and they threw a contract at him, and he turned it down for some reason (not sure why, sadly, he's no longer around to ask).  Though his match with Tanaka was my absolute favorite of the night.

My favorite ECW moments had to have been when Funk won the ECW World Title at the first ECW PPV (it freakin' came out of nowhere given Raven's lengthy reign) and Jerry Lynn FINALLY getting the ECW World Title.

The only guy I actually *hated* in ECW that everyone loved was New Jack.  I never liked that guy.  Always thought he was an arrogant prick and took advantage of wrestlers.  When Vic Grimes cracked him open - I thought "just desserts" for all of the times he hurt others.

By far ECW had my favorite tag teams on an "indy" scene, Paul had a certain magic with pairing guys up.  Da Baldies, Public Enemy, The Gangsta, the Pitbulls, F.B.I., Simon & Swinger, the Dudley Boyz, EZ Money & Julio Dinero, The Eliminators (my fav ECW team), Roadkill & During -- all of these teams just meshed so well together.  Even the ones who weren't that famous still had awesome matches and gelled really well as a team.  i can't really think of a flop of a team in ECW.


Yeah I remember Mike Awesome's brief WWE stint as part of the 'Invasion' angle. He won the Hardcore title for a short time but was then completely jobbed out before being released, he played no real part in the WWE vs WECW storyline.
I remember his match with Tanaka from One Night Stand too and like you I agree it was match of the night and that's quite a achievement on what was a very strong card and one of my favourite PPV events to date.
I didn't see much of his WCW run but that was mostly mid-card stuff too wasn't it? Seems that perhaps there were some attitude issues with Awesome given that a man with his size look and talent failed to make it in either of the top US promotions. ECW was overrun with problematic characters it almost became the place to work if you were blacklisted with WWE or WCW. But he even left ECW on a sour note after leaving while still holding the World title.

I never saw Jerry Lynn's reign as World champ but I will be catching it on the Network at some point in the very near future. Lynn vs RVD was one of the first ECW matches I ever watched and I was hooked after seeing that and Van Dam instantly became one of my favourite wrestlers.

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Posted By: MUSA
Date Posted: 11/January/2018 at 22:47
 

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• Come Back Please Poster 2010 Winner


Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 12/January/2018 at 10:02
Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

I was lucky enough to see ECW live in New York just before they closed down.  The 1999/2000 ECW was definitely not like OLD SCHOOL ECW, but it was still fun as hell to be apart of and still had some great talents around like Lynn, Rhino, Credible, and others.

@Fletch - Mike Awesome was actually in WWE for a REALLY short time after WCW got bought-out...and they let him go.  I thought that this was the dumbest release they made.  Mike Awesome was one of my favorite World Champions in ECW.  He was the most insanely strong wrestler I'd ever seen to this day (Cesaro and Goldberg are close 2nds).   Then he came back for ECW ONS and they threw a contract at him, and he turned it down for some reason (not sure why, sadly, he's no longer around to ask).  Though his match with Tanaka was my absolute favorite of the night.

My favorite ECW moments had to have been when Funk won the ECW World Title at the first ECW PPV (it freakin' came out of nowhere given Raven's lengthy reign) and Jerry Lynn FINALLY getting the ECW World Title.

The only guy I actually *hated* in ECW that everyone loved was New Jack.  I never liked that guy.  Always thought he was an arrogant prick and took advantage of wrestlers.  When Vic Grimes cracked him open - I thought "just desserts" for all of the times he hurt others.

By far ECW had my favorite tag teams on an "indy" scene, Paul had a certain magic with pairing guys up.  Da Baldies, Public Enemy, The Gangsta, the Pitbulls, F.B.I., Simon & Swinger, the Dudley Boyz, EZ Money & Julio Dinero, The Eliminators (my fav ECW team), Roadkill & During -- all of these teams just meshed so well together.  Even the ones who weren't that famous still had awesome matches and gelled really well as a team.  i can't really think of a flop of a team in ECW.


Yeah I remember Mike Awesome's brief WWE stint as part of the 'Invasion' angle. He won the Hardcore title for a short time but was then completely jobbed out before being released, he played no real part in the WWE vs WECW storyline.
I remember his match with Tanaka from One Night Stand too and like you I agree it was match of the night and that's quite a achievement on what was a very strong card and one of my favourite PPV events to date.
I didn't see much of his WCW run but that was mostly mid-card stuff too wasn't it? Seems that perhaps there were some attitude issues with Awesome given that a man with his size look and talent failed to make it in either of the top US promotions. ECW was overrun with problematic characters it almost became the place to work if you were blacklisted with WWE or WCW. But he even left ECW on a sour note after leaving while still holding the World title.

I never saw Jerry Lynn's reign as World champ but I will be catching it on the Network at some point in the very near future. Lynn vs RVD was one of the first ECW matches I ever watched and I was hooked after seeing that and Van Dam instantly became one of my favourite wrestlers.



Yeah, you bring up a good point.  I'm not sure what people thought of Mike Awesome backstage, given he somewhat gave ECW the shaft for a big money pay-out with WCW.  But, as Foley said on ONS, "To defend Mr. Awesome...if someone came knocking on my door with 5 million dollars I'd probably answer too." or something to that effect.

Despite that, I remember Awesome debuted by attacking Kevin Nash and then they never really did anything with him.  He came in with a bunch of hype and then they stuck him with a flurry of horrible gimmicks like "That 70's guy" and "Fat Chick Thriller".  When he joined Team Canada as it's enforcer, there was a HINT of the old Mike Awesome - but it was fleeting.  

WCW was a cancer, though.  When Awesome came in, Russo was booking (who had 10% great ideas, 90% horrendous ones) and the atmosphere in WCW was insanely political.  I'm sure Awesome got toppled by political giants like Nash and Hogan.  

When he debuted in WCW - I honestly thought we were going to see Mike Awesome vs. Hulk Hogan.  I wasn't sure if Hogan would take an Awesome Bomb or not, but I sure wanted to see it!


Yeah that was the trouble with WCW at that point, all the talent in the world couldn’t get you a top spot there unless you were in with the right people backstage, the lunatics were very much running the asylum it was a political minefield and it wouldn’t surprise me if the horrible gimmicks Awesome was given was a way of holding him back, chances are they were just another of Russo’s ridiculous creative decisions. Hogan and Nash probably saw Awesome as a threat to their spots, I personally would have loved to have seen Goldberg vs Awesome booked as a main event attraction.

Many talents left ECW for the big money and Paul Heyman didn’t blame them, the Dudleys wanted to stay but Paul E more or less pushed them to sign with WWE knowing they would become household names and make a ton of money offering them far more security. Difference with Awesome was he didn’t do business the right way, I don’t think anyone would blame him for taking the big money deal but he left with the title and from what I understand he was reluctant to put someone else over for the belt, in the end they did a weird scenario where WWE contracted talent Taz beat Awesome for the belt and became a transitional champ, but didn’t Awesome no-sell in the match or something like that?

On another note I actually quite liked New Jack, I know the guy couldn’t wrestle for shit but he was always entertaining due to his crazy brawls with his gangster rap theme in the background the whole time and I liked his promos too. The guy did have a reputation of being a absolute prick backstage though. Believe it or not he entered negotiations with WWE at one point, shockingly they couldn’t reach a agreement. I thought he may have been part of One Night Stand though.

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Posted By: Kondor
Date Posted: 12/January/2018 at 22:51
Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

The product was so cool and innovative at the time wasn't it. There was a lot of bad about it but it was easy to overlook the rubbish because the stuff that was worth watching was so good and unlike any other wrestling product. 

I really wish WWE could have kept them afloat. ECW died due to a lack of funding and advertisers and networks being reluctant to touch them due to the violent and adult theme of the product. ECW Hardcore TV only aired over here in a stupidly late timeslot from what I remember which is why I never really got to see it.
But if WWE could have agreed to provide funding and used ECW as a extension of their business and continued the talent trading that they had going on briefly then I think it could have survived. And no the watered down piece of crap that was WWE's third brand version of ECW doesn't count. The first and second One Night Stand events are evidence of what could have been achieved with a decent business relationship between WWE and ECW,

The expression is cliched, but ECW really was lightning in a bottle. It's success was due to a combination of the desires of the people who were core parts of it (such as Paul Heyman and Tommy Dreamer) and the mindset of society at the time, who were a lot less politically correct and sought after more edgy forms of entertainment. Just as Tod Gordon said, it can never be reproduced. 

As for keeping the company afloat, I do like your idea of a talent share and funding agreement between ECW and the WWF/E. What you propose is the difference between keeping a company on its feet versus outright taking over a company. To in part answer your next question, what WWE ended up doing was demanding creative control of ECW. That is a whole different ballgame than ECW receiving funding but remaining in control of its content and direction. ECW made its name from being different.   

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

to this day I'm still a bit baffled as to why WWE's brand version went so horribly wrong other than perhaps they left it too long meaning the popularity of ECW had waned and also much of the former roster were now too old and broken down to perform at their past standard. Plus many had a abundance of drug and pain killer issues and WWE wouldn't touch them or they wouldn't have lasted long in the company.

I don't think the passage of time and interest wearing off is what caused the WWE version of ECW to die. Rather it's that the product changed under the WWE banner. Many longtime ECW fans, such as the famous "straw hat guy" who was always in the front row of shows, stated that he attended the relaunch of ECW under WWE in 2006 but it wasn't the same. 

Another issue is that (just as I predicted at the time) the WWE made the ECW show about them and about WWE guys while the ECW guys were given less and less time. The first month or so you had Edge and Lita sit in the front row to "invade" the ECW show. You had WWE main roster guys like Test moved over to ECW. Another huge factor is Rob Van Dam's reign cut short after his drug bust. The only ECW originals taken anything close to serious after a few months were Tommy Dreamer and Balls Mahoney, maybe Sabu. The original fans realized that what they were seeing was not what they saw before. From then on ECW became WWE-lite and a feeder fed. But this is getting off your own topic of the "real" ECW. Tongue

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

I think this what inspired me to start this thread. Lately when watching WWE it's been really evident that so many if not most of the talent are following scripts and even the ring style looks rehearsed at times. Watching ECW on the Network has really shown what a lost art improvising promos and matches has become in the business which is a tragedy because this was the most effective way to really engage the crowd and feed off their reaction.

I could not agree more, and I have been saying this for years. Coming up with things to say on the fly is indeed a lost art, and the feds where this was allowed on a large scale have been the most successful. 

Originally posted by Baz Baz wrote:

Oh man I loved The Dudley clan in ECW. Of course we all know Bubba Ray, Dvon and the runt Spike but we also had Big Dick and Sign Guy haha.

Though my favourite bit of ECW was always Joel Gertner. I often wonder if the quintessential stud muffin wrote his own segments or if someone did it for him.

Oh yeah. The interesting thing here is that D Von was not a part of the original 1995 Dudleys and when he came into ECW in 1996 it was to feud with Buh Buh Ray. It wasn't until 1997 that Buh Buh and D Von started to regularly team up. 

I do wish Sign Guy would have had an offer from WWE. He would have been perfect with the Dudleys in the early 00's. 

As for Joel Gertner, he just said the most crazy things out of anyone. Whoever did write his lines is a poetical genius either way. 

Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

Roadkill & During

Yes!! I loved the Amish chicken plucker and Dastardly Danny. 

Originally posted by MUSA MUSA wrote:

ECW had this amazing ability of getting everyone over. It didn't matter if they opened the card, in the midcard, or main evented. Everyone was over. That's what made it so fun.

I think this is a good point; and this goes hand in hand with what Fletch said about characters being allowed to be free. But I also think the fans had different expectations. ECW fans respected people who fought with everything they had like Tommy Dreamer or did a crazy antic like Stevie Richards. But they could reject somebody who didn't adapt to the ECW style. I remember one time Tommy Rogers came in and started doing headlocks and began with the "boring" chant. But wrestle the same way and show heart like Mickey Whipwreck and you win them over. 

Tommy Dreamer often tells the story in interviews about how the fans booed him when he first came in as he was too clean cut, until he took those Singapore cane shots from Sandman.     

Originally posted by Fletch Fletch wrote:

On another note I actually quite liked New Jack, I know the guy couldn’t wrestle for shit but he was always entertaining due to his crazy brawls with his gangster rap theme in the background the whole time and I liked his promos too. The guy did have a reputation of being a absolute prick backstage though. Believe it or not he entered negotiations with WWE at one point, shockingly they couldn’t reach a agreement. I thought he may have been part of One Night Stand though.

Aye, New Jack and the Gangstas were absolutely insane in their matches, just hitting their opponents with anything they can in or outside the ring while music is playing the whole match and the crowd goes crazy. The concept of actually tagging during a tag match was abandoned much of the time, especially with the Gangstas. 

Funnily enough I actually liked New Jack and Kronus as a team better, the Gangstinators. 


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Posted By: Fletch
Date Posted: 13/January/2018 at 10:09
I think the WWE relaunch of ECW as a third brand failed in part due to the lack of ECW original talent available, I mean the only guys of note were RVD, Sabu, Sandman and Tommy Dreamer. But yeah the main issue was WWE's interference with the creative direction and in just a short time the ECW guys were phased out more or less completely and the brand morphed into just a standard WWE product becoming ECW in name only.

I don't know maybe if WWE could have got Raven, Mike Awesome, Shane Douglas, The Dudleys, New Jack and a few more on board perhaps it could have been a success, but they would have needed to have handed full control of creative to Heyman and his crew. WWE have proved that they can run a successful alternative product in NXT and this is the direction they should have taken with ECW. They were on the right track with the first One Night Stand event, this was a great show that was very authentic to the ECW product, the involvement of WWE talent was limited to them being in the crowd which allowed for Heyman to cut that awesome shoot promo so I had no problems with that. The second One Night Stand had to change direction due to so many ECW talents being under contract to TNA, but it was still a great show that I enjoyed. WWE proved here that they were willing to let Heyman more or less run the show and I don't know why that had to change.

House of Hardcore and CZW were more ECW than WWE's version.

Watched Barely Legal 97 last night, superb match between Taz and Sabu and what a great team the Eliminators were. The triple-threat between Sandman, Funk and Stevie Richards was a crazy brawl and I really enjoyed Douglas vs Pitbull 2 as well.

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